Parents Are Hard To Raise S02 Episode 90 Transcript
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Announcer: [00:00:37] When the explosive news of a life altering illness drops the resulting emotional and psychological shockwaves shatter not only the lives and plans, hopes and dreams of the person affected, but extend to the very edges of their universe. This week on Parents Are Hard To Raise. Psychologist Dr. Lina Aldana helps us pick up the pieces and begin moving forward again. Parents are hard to raise is now available on Spotify and it’s 180 million monthly subscribers.
Diane: [00:01:21] Welcome to Parents Are Hard To Raise, helping families grow older together without losing their minds. I’m elder care expert Diane Berardi.
[00:01:30] It can feel like a punch in the gut… When the doctor delivers that life altering news. All the plans and priorities you had just moments ago instantly turned to smoke when you’re confronted with a major cancer, serious disease or other life threatening condition. There is no right or wrong way to feel when you or someone you love gets that kind of news. Most people just go numb inside and are unable to fully process the news. And then, after reality begins to sink in… Out of the blue, you’re hit with a tidal wave of emotions that can easily engulf and smother you with anxiety, fear, worry and sadness, and leave you feeling naked, cold and all alone. Then comes the questions to which you have no answers. How do you help your loved one cope with the news of their diagnosis? How do you help everyone else in the family? How do you cope yourself? What do you say or not say to the person about their illness? Do you say anything at all? What topics should you avoid? Should you offer help or wait for them to ask you?
[00:02:42] These are the kind of questions my family and I were confronted with this past week, as are so many other families. And it’s why I’ve asked our resident psychologist Dr. Lina Aldana to help walk us through some of life’s toughest times.
[00:02:58] Dr. Aldana Is a licensed psychologist and clinical director at Pirrelli clinical and forensic psychology and is our go to expert for issues like these.
[00:03:06] Lena, thank you for taking the time to be with us today.
Dr. Lina Aldana: [00:03:10] You are very welcome. My pleasure and thank you for having me and thinking of me during this really difficult moment.
Diane: [00:03:17] Well, my first thought, when the doctor was telling us the news about my mom, I’m thinking, what do I say to her? You know, how do I find the right words? What do we do?
Dr. Lina Aldana: [00:03:37] So hard. So devastating. Right? I actually thought about you when I got the call that you want to be a guest on the show. And I thought about you know how often when we know somebody is aging and they may have some issues certain things are not supposed to be, quote, surprises. Right?
Diane: [00:03:55] Right.
Dr. Lina Aldana: [00:03:56] But it does feel like a surprise, even if you knew it was coming. And then if this was really left field, it is just devastating. Now what do you do with that? And how do you stay together, so that you can hold everybody? Because that’s what you’re… That’s what you’re doing, you’re holding everybody. So how do you keep yourself together a while while you do all that?
Diane: [00:04:21] And you’re right. I mean, I you know… I talk to you the other night and you could hear I ran myself probably into the ground which so many caregivers do. And I really I just started to become a caregiver. And honestly it’s just been taking her to the doctors, and the biopsies and you know waiting with her in the hospital and and when she was admitted, and trying to keep my father together. But it’s… You can see where it just can wear you out and you don’t even realize it. You just keep going and going and your body just…
Dr. Lina Aldana: [00:05:06] Breaks down.
Diane: [00:05:07] Yeah.
[00:05:10] What do we do? How do we…
Dr. Lina Aldana: [00:05:13] How do you manage?
[00:05:14] You pray and you hope. [laughing].
[00:05:18] But besides all that…
[00:05:19] I think being aware. Right? You if you… When we care for someone who really needs us and we like the primary and go to for everyone, and we rally everything, we get everything together, then we have to be really cognizant and aware that we’re like an integral part of the machine. And if we break down everything breaks down with us. Right?
Diane: [00:05:44] Right.
Dr. Lina Aldana: [00:05:44] If that’s the case, then we must care for ourselves so that we function well and then we can help everybody else. If you don’t help yourself you’re going to fall apart and then you can’t help anyone. So being aware that you need a break, that you’re feeling badly, that you need and want to speak to someone whether it is a professional or a friend or another loved one. Not holding everything in. Because if you hold everything in… You know it’s gonna… I just talk to you in the background… It’s going to come out somehow. And usually we hold it all in, especially our emotions, physically that’s where it’s going to show. That’s where the symptoms come, a lot of the times. So just know yourself and know your limitations this kind of goes back to our last conversation. The last was on your show…
[00:06:34] Understanding that we can’t do it all. That we do need to ask for help. And that you have to deligate. If you can’t do something, kind of like you couldn’t do it the other day, you give a job to someone else, because you can’t be there and it doesn’t make you a bad person. It doesn’t mean you’re being irresponsible or not loving your loved one. It just means you need a break, so that you can love them and care for them, well.
Diane: [00:06:59] No, you’re absolutely right. I mean, I could feel myself you know not feeling well, but I just kept pushing and pushing and I guess I kind of think, I have to be there, you know.
[00:07:16] And people offer… You know there’s so many my cousins offered to take my mom and do things and… And know I don’t know I don’t know is that a feeling? You know I’m like, but she looks for me. You know, like I have to be there and I don’t know if that’s me or am I reading into that? Or I mean or I don’t know… I feel that coming from her, you know, that she feels comfortable and more relaxed when I’m there, but I don’t know if that’s me reading into it and she’ll be OK with someone else. Is that just a control thing?
Dr. Lina Aldana: [00:08:00] Well you know, we people, we human beings are funny in that way. You know when you say that, the way I relate to my own personal experiences is, you know my children. Right?
Diane: [00:08:11] Right.
Dr. Lina Aldana: [00:08:11] “Well, they’re much better with me than anybody else.” Even thopugh I know that the babysitter does a good job and they’re happy with her when she’s there and yes maybe they cry when I leave. But they get over it.
[00:08:22] So not that I’m comparing your mother to a baby or you know our older parents to two small babies but the relationship and the dynamic, that’s what I’m talking about. So it does happen. It’s normal for us to think that especially if we are the primary people that they go to. You know we have a very special role in their lives that we take very seriously we are responsible for this other person.
Diane: [00:08:45] Yeah.
Dr. Lina Aldana: [00:08:45] So giving that bit of control and giving you know that responsibility to someone else… It’s a little scary because maybe they are not going to do it as well as we are. And maybe not, because they’re not us. But if we are sure or if we believe that that other person is going to care, is going to do a good job and the recipient of the job is going to be OK and they can bond in a positive way then it’s OK to do it.
[00:09:18] It won’t be the same and you can normalize it for the person. “No, I’m not going to be here today. So-and-so has to take cover today because I can’t, and I’ll be here next time and I want to be here today, but it’s impossible because of X, Y and Z. But I will be here, Whatever date. And I’ll be here, well because I’m not feeling well right now, and I need a break.”
[00:09:40] And maybe they can’t hear that. Maybe they can’t understand that. But at least you’re giving them something.
Diane: [00:09:47] Well you know, it’s funny because my mom, she will say to me, “No. Don’t come!”
[00:09:55] You know her. Her her maternal I guess instincts come in, “No…” And she starts worrying about me. And so and I thought, Mom, you know, I don’t want you worrying about me and I’m saying to her. But then I’m thinking well maybe that’s good because I kind of took her mind off… You know maybe you off of herself a little bit or you know her illness. But I’m thinking, now she’s worried about me so… But that’s always a mother, I guess. Right? You’re always a mother. You’re always a mom.
Dr. Lina Aldana: [00:10:26] Yeah… Everybody says that: “My 70 year old baby.” Right? So yeah, I don’t think it ever goes away. It’s part of the human experience. You know the loving in the attachment and having to let go it is just it’s just part of life and it’s very real and also very sad part of our experience.
[00:10:45] You ask me on I think a very important question earlier. You said to me, “How much can I tell her?” And you also said that during the introduction. How much do we tell the people that are now diagnosed and whether are our parents or our loved uncle or whoever in whoever so important to us.
[00:11:06] How much do we say to them? And I go back and forth with our questions sometimes, but someone says something very important to me one day. They said, “Don’t ever take away sort of the control that this person can have over their own life.”.
Diane: [00:11:22] Right.
Dr. Lina Aldana: [00:11:23] By not telling them. By keeping something so important as a diagnosis of a major illness away from someone, in many ways or infantilizing them, I think. In many ways you’re just saying, “You’re so frail, you can’t cope.”
[00:11:36] And maybe so. But people have a right to know.
Diane: [00:11:42] Yeah.
Dr. Lina Aldana: [00:11:42] And You can use… You can find different language. It doesn’t have to be like the full-blown Diagnostic label and…
[00:11:50] It can just be, “You know you have been… The doctor says you have this and this is what can happen. And, worst case scenario this is what we’re looking at.” And It may be shocking to that person and it may not be. It depends you know how physically fit or not they’ve been and how old they are and how attuned they are to their own body and their own mortality. So different people will react differently. I know some people who will not be shocked if they are told that this is what I have and I have XY and Z time left. And some people who are not doing well, but who are not attuned to that idea, may be shocked, anyway. So it’s sort of personal.
Diane: [00:12:36] Right.
[00:12:37] So when we come back, we’ll be talking more with Dr. Lina Aldana
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Announcer: [00:14:42] You’re listening to Parents Are Hard To Raise. Now thanks to you, the number one eldercare talk show on planet Earth. Listen to this and other episodes on demand using the iHeart Radio app. iPhone users can listen on Apple podcasts and Android users on Google podcast.
Diane: [00:15:05] Lina what I wanted to ask you… When a spouse becomes ill, how do we help the other spouse deal with the shock and and trying to understand and function? You know like there’s a change, this person that… You you’ve done things together and you kind of… You know, with my mom and dad, they’ve been married 65 years, and so they they make up one person kind of, you know. One can see better than the other, one maybe can hear a little bit better than the other. You know one can maybe walk a little better… Them so they kind of you know help each other. And so now it’s like my dad is just… He’s kind of in you know he’s in shock and he’s kind of just moving along but he’s having almost like panic attacks at night and I I don’t know what to say to him to try to help him.
Dr. Lina Aldana: [00:16:14] You know sometimes is not what you can say to them the way you may ask them if they’re willing to talk.
Diane: [00:16:21] OK.
Dr. Lina Aldana: [00:16:22] Or making those indirect comments that are kind of directed to a third party, but it’s really to them, to normalize the experience. And so, maybe noting that the changes and you know, “I have heard of some people or I know so-and-so who went through a similar experience and they got really nervous or really scared that they’re going to be all alone and then they started to experience some of these things. Is that what’s happening to you?” Kind of going… Saying it but from the side…
Diane: [00:16:59] Okay. Going around it a little.
Dr. Lina Aldana: [00:17:00] Yes.
[00:17:01] So it’s not so scary and so direct. Not, “Dad are you are you are you anxious now?” [laughing]
Diane: [00:17:06] Right. Exactly. ‘Cause You know… ’cause he’s still a man you know and your dad. So it’s kind of … Yeah. [laughing]
Dr. Lina Aldana: [00:17:13] So you kind circumvent it and ask it, but in a very gentle way, that doesn’t feel so intrusive or judgmental. It’s more like it’s OK. You know it’s happened to other people and I’ve heard that it happens to them. And I’m wondering if if that is happening. Because sometimes when big changes happen you know it makes us nervous and you know maybe recognize the fact that they have been together so long. And it must be so scary to think that mom is now dying.
[00:17:52] Yeah, I… You know we all know our parents… I mean they’re older and you’ve heard them on the show and they’re like a comedy routine. You know they’ve been together so long and…
[00:18:11] And, you know me as a professional… You know do the right things you have to do in the things you have to go through and… But then it just hits you and you’re kind of… you are. You’re filled with all these emotions. And my brother and sister aren’t in the area and I’m their… I deliver all the news. And I have to call them and tell them what’s happening, and it’s kind of hard and you know, because then you get… You know I kind of have to give them… You know we were in the hospital having the biopsy and it took, we were in the hospital like 12 hours and…
Dr. Lina Aldana: [00:19:01] Oh, wow.
Diane: [00:19:01] Yeah. It just was so so long. And I have to keep calling them or texting them through the whole thing and it’s… I don’t know it’s just… And I know it’s so anxious for them as well, because they’re not here. And I know that happens with so many families, sometimes you have one sibling, you know one person who’s here or maybe two people and people are all over the you know all over now in different states different areas, so not everyone is close. And you know how do you deal with that?
Dr. Lina Aldana: [00:19:39] It’s it’s overwhelming it’s extremely difficult. You know you have a big job. Then when there’s only one person who is the front person.
Diane: [00:19:50] Yeah.
Dr. Lina Aldana: [00:19:50] And there has to dole out all the information and also make decisions and then get feedback from everybody. It’s extremely stressful.
[00:20:01] So the question that you asking me is how do you tell them or how do you manage yourself?
Diane: [00:20:07] Both. [laughing]
[00:20:10] I’m filled with all these questions and I’m sure our listeners…
Dr. Lina Aldana: [00:20:17] I mean, you can go a number of ways. You can just say the facts… Just say it like it is and just give given the information. Because remember, the people who are at a distance, they are protected. Right?
[00:20:30] They are not there. They’re not seeing it. They’re now living it. They’re just getting the information, and they can be the backseat drivers in many ways.
Diane: [00:20:38] Yes. Yeah.
Dr. Lina Aldana: [00:20:39] Whereas, when you are the front person, you know you’re doing it all. And you’re being called on to make decisions, to do all sorts of things that no one is there to help you with. And it’s so easy for the people who are not present to give interesting feedback at these moments when they’re not there. And so that can be also very frustrating. So you know…
[00:21:03] So, in terms of handling the relatives and the siblings and friends and whoever, you know we can do so many different things. It really depends on who we are as people. And at the moment how we’re feeling in many ways, we can just say, “Well, we know from the doctors…” Say things you know state the facts and that’s it. And if people have questions or comments you know either you deflect or you just say, “Hey you’re not here. This is how it is.” So it really depends on the person, on who the person is and how they respond to family members. Because some people may feel frustrated, but they feel like they need to be deferet to certain relatives you know. So yeah it’s an interesting ball of wax.
[00:21:49] I know.
[00:21:50] Well in terms of, how do we care for ourselves? Because this is an extremely stressful moment. You know not only are we confronted with the mortality of very deeply loved person but also affected with the stressors of helping them through it, helping others and managing all sorts of things, not only the medical, the financial, their relatives, everything, right? And that’s extreemely overwhelming and you just mentioned having gotten sick recently, because you ran yourself into the ground. And I mentioned being aware of your limitations, taking breaks, seeking help…
[00:22:24] But one of the ways we can seek help… true help. Not “true,” maybe that was the wrong statement. “Professional” is the better statement… Because we can get true help from our loved ones and a support group, but we get different help from somebody who is a professional.
Diane: [00:22:38] Right.
Dr. Lina Aldana: [00:22:39] They’re going to be an unbiased person in many ways because they don’t know us. So we can feel more comfortable. That’s the one beauty of that. Right? You go there and you say what you need to say, once you build trust, because you don’t know that person, you just know them to be your helper, but you don’t know their history, you don’t have to worry about their lives. You know that you are there, and this is what they do and you’re going to find a way to help you, if you find the courage to share your story.
[00:23:10] And so, once… If that’s the road that people decide to take, because some people do need to do it, the stress is so high or the grief is so deep that you know that they seek professional help. So that there are many ways that people can help professionally. Either the therapist can help them to sort of process what’s happening… Understand you know the loss and and their own symptoms and everything that’s going on in their lives, and sort of you know take a look back to their relationship and look into the future as to how they can move forward. Or they or some people can’t do that. Some people say they can’t rush in and do this deep processing because the dynamic was complex or because that’s just not who they are or how they function. So they may just need tools… You know tools to learn how to manage, how to cope with stress, how to cope with the anxiety. You know, how to know what the trigger is and what the symptom looks like and then what to do to reduce the anxiety, or improve the mood, or highten the motivation or the energy, because they’re now becoming depressed and run down. So it really depends on the person’s needs.
Diane: [00:24:26] Yeah.
Dr. Lina Aldana: [00:24:26] If they seek treatment and if they don’t seek treatment. You know relatives can be helpful. Friends can be helpful. But the help may be a little bit different.
Diane: [00:24:37] Yeah. And you know I guess…
[00:24:40] I mean for me, I’m not the type of person to… You know people call me and ask me, of course family and friends, “How’s your mom?” And of course they want to know everything that’s happening, and then because it’s a natural thing they’ll ask me, “Well, what’s the prognosis” or you know “Well, what are you doing?” Or “What about this and what about…” And it kind of, you kno… l And then they relay their experiences to you and it’s like, oh my gosh I… It makes me more overwhelmed, if that makes sense.
Dr. Lina Aldana: [00:25:17] Of course.
[00:25:20] It’s like they’re dumping and dumping and dumping, and your cup is full. And it’s beyond the brim. So it has to stop at some point.
[00:25:31] So the question is… How do we deal with that?
[00:25:34] When there is only one child or one family member who handles it all. How do they say, “Okay, enough.” “I need this to stop and I need you to do this, and I need you to do that and indeed… You know I think it involves a level of courage to say, I need help. and I need this to stop and I can handle it all on my own.
[00:25:54] And I think this goes back to your original question about you know leaving Mom with somebody else.
Diane: [00:26:00] Yeah.
Dr. Lina Aldana: [00:26:01] What if they don’t do such a good job? I think is related to that, because it’s also understanding that, yes, these people are not going to do it exactly as I am, but they are willing to help. Some may be not so willing, but they should help. Especially if they have opinions [laughing]
[00:26:17] But it’s delegating some of the work, because the machine breaks down. We cannot run a machine that a thousand miles per hour because it will break down. And if the machine breaks down nothing works. Right?
[00:26:31] Ah yeah. And I guess that it does require courage. You know, you say that because you know to ask for help, and I know I’ve talked on shows, you can’t do it all, you have to you know get help, you have to take care of yourself. But it does require courage because I feel, and I shouldn’t, but and I know and my mom was like, ” No don’t come.” But I feel guilty. I feel like I have to go there and I have to be with her and I have to spend all the time that I can with her. And so I… Yet I do know that I need a break from the travel, you know I’m not close by. And so it’s I guess it does require…It Does, courage. You know I didn’t think about that word but it does.
Dr. Lina Aldana: [00:27:25] Yeah. Courage to accept your limitations. To accept help. To seek help and accept it, because we can say, “Oh, we’re so tired… I can’t do this.” And help is offered and we’re like, “No. No. Thank you. I got this.” [laughing].
Diane: [00:27:38] Yeah you’re right.
[00:27:43] And you know I had this cold I talked to you Wednesday, and Thursday my mom was going to start her first treatment. And I said to my husband… And normally the both of us would drive there, and because we have my dad too. And he’s you know… We have to drop my mom off. I would go with her, get a wheelchair and we wheel into the cancer center. And my husband will have my dad you know so this way he’s watching him and I’m with her and then you know we’re all in this… We meet in the same place, where we have to go but …and Then I’m thinking how is he gonna… I said I can’t go. You know first of all I’m sick. I can’t get anyone sick. And I just I… I couldn’t do it.
[00:28:34] But I’m thinking, how is he going to manage? How are you going to manage two people? You’re not going to be able to do it. Because my dad just takes off. [laughing] But he did it. He was texting me all along the way because there’s so many incidents with my dad. [laughing]
Dr. Lina Aldana: [00:28:55] That’s Funny
Diane: [00:28:56] Yeah, he kind of just creates… He doesn’t even know he’s creating things that are happening. Chaos. [laughing]
[00:29:05] But he managed, you know the poor guy. It took him like 12 hours from beginning to end but he managed. But I was thinking oh my gosh. So I did it, but it took me being kind of knocked down to get the help.
Dr. Lina Aldana: [00:29:25] LIterally passed out. [laughing].
Diane: [00:29:27] Yeah… literally passed out. [laughing]
Dr. Lina Aldana: [00:29:32] But anyway I can…
Dr. Lina Aldana: [00:29:35] Can I just interrupt you for one second, because I think you’re saying something really important. You know you’re saying you trust your husband, obviously. And you know you can do it, but you just didn’t think he you could manage the two of them at the same time and you had your misgivings about that.
[00:29:51] But I think that sometimes we don’t give people enough credit, or we don’t give them what’s the word I’m looking for? I think sometimes we we don’t expect enough of people.
Dr. Lina Aldana: [00:30:05] I guess that’s what I’m saying.
Diane: [00:30:06] Yeah.
Dr. Lina Aldana: [00:30:06] Or we tell ourselves you know so-and-so is just too hard for them; they can’t.
Diane: [00:30:12] Yeah.
Dr. Lina Aldana: [00:30:13] And then we discount the fact that they do have strengths and that they can help more than we realize. And so we end up strapped, right? Because then we end up saying, “No,no, no… you don’t have to do that. I’m going to do it, because I…”.
[00:30:26] And then you end up taking on more and more, when in reality, People are very capable. Capable. That’s the word I was looking for. People are really capable. Not everyone, but a lot of people are very capable especially when they’re called to do it. And in times of of distress, in times of emergency, people are much more willing to do things. And to be there for you and to go the extra mile. Maybe not so much sometimes for us, but for the loved one or for whoever or for their own principles. Who knows? But um, but sometimes people are more capable than we realize or whether we give them credit for. And if we are able to sort of recognize that and step back a little…
Diane: [00:31:09] Yeah.
Dr. Lina Aldana: [00:31:10] We can let others take on more. So that we can rest, we can take on a little less here and there, So than we can do the job. When we’re the only one, the job is big, really really big.
Diane: [00:31:25] That’s really a great point. Honestly, you’re right. You’re absolutely right. And like with my husband, he handled it. And he made him not have done everything like I would have done it. You know when both of us were there, but he was able to do it. And yeah. And that’s…
Dr. Lina Aldana: [00:31:43] And he even had the space to text. [laughing] He was even able to text.
Diane: [00:31:50] I know. Right. It’s hard.
Dr. Lina Aldana: [00:31:51] It’s so hard. Because some of the things that I say to you and some of things that I say to my clients… I’m like, “Oh my God… I’m not even doing that.” [laughing].
[00:31:58] Because it’s easier to be the person who is in the role of caregiver and the person who is given the direction and but when we’re called to sort of give up the control, the power, and just… You know, it’s so hard. Because no one is going to do it like us. And maybe so, but it does get done, right?
Diane: [00:32:21] Right.
Dr. Lina Aldana: [00:32:21] Because if you were absent, someone else would have to step up.
Diane: [00:32:25] And my brother is coming this week, which is good. Because he’ll give me a break as far as doctors and things like that. And but I’m I’m I’m. I have a list of things, I’m like, You know I have to tell him. You know, remember this. Look at this. You know you got to watch this. You got to do this. And then I’m thinking… he’s an adult, and he’s going to know what to do. And he’s probably not going to notice you know things like that I notice. Like my dad can’t get his jacket on by himself, because he has a bad shoulder. So you have to help him. And it’s like… I’m thinking is my brother going to remember that?
[00:33:08] You know I mean? It was like Oh my God.
Dr. Lina Aldana: [00:33:12] Well, if he doesn’t remember that he’ll know when your father has half a jacket on and is dragging the other half. [laughing].
Diane: [00:33:20] I know. I know it’s just… And you’re right. I’m just like OK you know. But it’s just…
Dr. Lina Aldana: [00:33:30] It’s hard to trust. It’s hard to give it up. I get it.
Diane: [00:33:33] Yeah.
Dr. Lina Aldana: [00:33:34] It is not easy.
Diane: [00:33:36] No. It’s crazy.
Dr. Lina Aldana: [00:33:39] So, what I want to say to you is you know you are amazing. You’re doing a lot. I don’t even know that I could do this stuff that you’re doing. Really. And it sounds like you got an amazing relationship with your parents. Not everybody has that.
Diane: [00:33:53] I’m very lucky. Yeah.
Dr. Lina Aldana: [00:33:55] Yes because… It sounds amazing. So I’m envious and I hope you know hey that’s wonderful. I mean there’s a reason why it’s there. I’m sure they deserve it.
Diane: [00:34:06] Lina, thank you so much for being here.
Dr. Lina Aldana: [00:34:11] You’re welcome.
[00:34:11] And thank You for helping me and our listeners.
Dr. Lina Aldana: [00:34:14] You are welcome. My pleasure.
Diane: [00:34:16] I love getting your e-mails and questions, so please keep sending them. You can reach me at Diane@ParentsAreHardToRaise.org Or just click the green button on our home page. Parents Are Hard To Raise is a CounterThink Media production.
[00:34:29] The music used in this broadcast was managed by Cosmo Music, New York, New York.
[00:34:33] Our New York producer is Joshua Green. Our broadcast engineer as Well Gambino. And from our London studios, the melodic voice of our announcer, Miss Dolly D.
[00:34:43] Thank you so much for listening.
[00:34:45] Till next time… May you forget everything you don’t want to remember and remember everything you don’t want to forget.
[00:34:51] See you again next week.